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	<title>Comments on: Solar-panel &#8220;trees&#8221; really are inferior (or: &#8220;In which hopelessly inept journalists reduce me to having to debunk a school science project&#8221;)</title>
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	<link>http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/746</link>
	<description>Jon Starbuck's blog exposing pseudo-green nonsense, promoting science and critical thinking.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 09:07:59 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Jamie</title>
		<link>http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/746#comment-125760</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 May 2013 08:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eco-scams.com/?p=746#comment-125760</guid>
		<description>Hey, I&#039;m one of those people who&#039;s wandering the net looking at ways to be a bit more eco-friendly and cut the bills. Having said that I would like to thank you for this article. It has most likely saved me time and money, and it came up when I googled solar breakthrough, right after an article about the 13 year old. I appreciate the realistic approach and you sharing with us non-sciency types who wouldn&#039;t ever get why it wouldn&#039;t work that it most likely wont.

Seemed like you were getting a lot of flack for a non-existent attack on the kid instead of thanks for sharing your knowledge. So kudos for putting it out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I&#8217;m one of those people who&#8217;s wandering the net looking at ways to be a bit more eco-friendly and cut the bills. Having said that I would like to thank you for this article. It has most likely saved me time and money, and it came up when I googled solar breakthrough, right after an article about the 13 year old. I appreciate the realistic approach and you sharing with us non-sciency types who wouldn&#8217;t ever get why it wouldn&#8217;t work that it most likely wont.</p>
<p>Seemed like you were getting a lot of flack for a non-existent attack on the kid instead of thanks for sharing your knowledge. So kudos for putting it out there.</p>
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		<title>By: James Wood</title>
		<link>http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/746#comment-125412</link>
		<dc:creator>James Wood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 May 2013 12:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eco-scams.com/?p=746#comment-125412</guid>
		<description>Hi Jim et al thanks for all the support, I too am a 12 year old inventor (well I was but it is all a bit confusing) I was working on an similar experiment in 1980 that proved that if I flip the panel away from the sun its output increases, but when I read this I realised I&#039;d made a mistake in my calculations. Fortunately I hadn&#039;t published my article because I got too bogged down with my time machine. Anyway must go I&#039;ve just found out that I&#039;ve got to go back and warn Maggie the Argies will be invading some island called the Falklands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jim et al thanks for all the support, I too am a 12 year old inventor (well I was but it is all a bit confusing) I was working on an similar experiment in 1980 that proved that if I flip the panel away from the sun its output increases, but when I read this I realised I&#8217;d made a mistake in my calculations. Fortunately I hadn&#8217;t published my article because I got too bogged down with my time machine. Anyway must go I&#8217;ve just found out that I&#8217;ve got to go back and warn Maggie the Argies will be invading some island called the Falklands.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/746#comment-120796</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Apr 2013 02:31:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eco-scams.com/?p=746#comment-120796</guid>
		<description>Thanks for all the comments that support this 13yr old having a go...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all the comments that support this 13yr old having a go&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/746#comment-120795</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Apr 2013 02:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eco-scams.com/?p=746#comment-120795</guid>
		<description>Exactly..The kid got it wrong but you need to get a new hobby.
Where is the praise for him having a go?

And your own website home page tells enough when you praise CFL, this explains why bloggers should be ignored regularly.

CFL contain Mercury and have to be recycled as such not go to landfill as enough of them say 10-20 will contaminate water source, LED is the lightbulb, so maybe you need to research that a bit more or just get a girlfriend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly..The kid got it wrong but you need to get a new hobby.<br />
Where is the praise for him having a go?</p>
<p>And your own website home page tells enough when you praise CFL, this explains why bloggers should be ignored regularly.</p>
<p>CFL contain Mercury and have to be recycled as such not go to landfill as enough of them say 10-20 will contaminate water source, LED is the lightbulb, so maybe you need to research that a bit more or just get a girlfriend.</p>
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		<title>By: Logan</title>
		<link>http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/746#comment-105459</link>
		<dc:creator>Logan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 18:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eco-scams.com/?p=746#comment-105459</guid>
		<description>As an electrical engineer (so presumably I have better than an 8th grade level of knowledge about electricity), I&#039;ll just point out that semi-conductors do not fit nicely into your Ohm&#039;s Law approach, Has a Clue. Check out wikipedia&#039;s article on the topic (specifically diodes) and you&#039;ll get some idea of this. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diode

Also, what MIT is doing is maximizing output for a given base area and. While output per unit base area for the entire array is being increased, the output of the each individual cell composing the array isn&#039;t even close to being maximized. A latitude tilted array might have more output, but it takes up a much larger area. (Also worth noting is that 3D arrays are for more expensive per watt to purchase). Finally, in the MIT array the cells are likely linked in a parallel configuration. In Aiden&#039;s they were linked in series. What this means is that if one array is being blocked in Aiden&#039;s, which would have almost always been the case given his array choice, the current output of the entire array would have been decreased (Which as you so astutely noted would decrease the power output). In a parallel array this isn&#039;t really an issue as the cells are operating independently of each other. As he was just reading the open circuit voltage, he would not have noticed this effect. I could go on even more, but I fear this post is already far too long. 

Solar is an exciting area of research and we&#039;ll hopefully continue to see improvements in the vein of MIT&#039;s 3D arrays, maybe by individuals such as Aiden (once he&#039;s had a little more education to enhance his already formidable creativity).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an electrical engineer (so presumably I have better than an 8th grade level of knowledge about electricity), I&#8217;ll just point out that semi-conductors do not fit nicely into your Ohm&#8217;s Law approach, Has a Clue. Check out wikipedia&#8217;s article on the topic (specifically diodes) and you&#8217;ll get some idea of this.<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diode" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diode</a></p>
<p>Also, what MIT is doing is maximizing output for a given base area and. While output per unit base area for the entire array is being increased, the output of the each individual cell composing the array isn&#8217;t even close to being maximized. A latitude tilted array might have more output, but it takes up a much larger area. (Also worth noting is that 3D arrays are for more expensive per watt to purchase). Finally, in the MIT array the cells are likely linked in a parallel configuration. In Aiden&#8217;s they were linked in series. What this means is that if one array is being blocked in Aiden&#8217;s, which would have almost always been the case given his array choice, the current output of the entire array would have been decreased (Which as you so astutely noted would decrease the power output). In a parallel array this isn&#8217;t really an issue as the cells are operating independently of each other. As he was just reading the open circuit voltage, he would not have noticed this effect. I could go on even more, but I fear this post is already far too long. </p>
<p>Solar is an exciting area of research and we&#8217;ll hopefully continue to see improvements in the vein of MIT&#8217;s 3D arrays, maybe by individuals such as Aiden (once he&#8217;s had a little more education to enhance his already formidable creativity).</p>
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		<title>By: Has A Clue</title>
		<link>http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/746#comment-79824</link>
		<dc:creator>Has A Clue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2013 22:31:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eco-scams.com/?p=746#comment-79824</guid>
		<description>Oh well, it&#039;s a shame that none of the posters here appear to have made it past the 7th grade.  In 8th grade I learned Ohm&#039;s Law: E = I*R.  Ergo, I = E/R. Go look it up.  Electromotive Force is measured in Volts.  A single volt is defined as the difference in electric potential across a wire when an electric current of one ampere dissipates one watt of power.  Power is a function of and directly proportional to current.  That&#039;s four function arithmetic. Not physics.  QED.

Fortunately, some brighter, more practical minds at MIT decided to find out if the kid was correct and verified that he was:  http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/three-dimensional-solar-energy-0327.html

Note, however, that they failed to give any credit to Aiden.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh well, it&#8217;s a shame that none of the posters here appear to have made it past the 7th grade.  In 8th grade I learned Ohm&#8217;s Law: E = I*R.  Ergo, I = E/R. Go look it up.  Electromotive Force is measured in Volts.  A single volt is defined as the difference in electric potential across a wire when an electric current of one ampere dissipates one watt of power.  Power is a function of and directly proportional to current.  That&#8217;s four function arithmetic. Not physics.  QED.</p>
<p>Fortunately, some brighter, more practical minds at MIT decided to find out if the kid was correct and verified that he was:  <a href="http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/three-dimensional-solar-energy-0327.html" rel="nofollow">http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/three-dimensional-solar-energy-0327.html</a></p>
<p>Note, however, that they failed to give any credit to Aiden.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry</title>
		<link>http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/746#comment-65229</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2012 23:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eco-scams.com/?p=746#comment-65229</guid>
		<description>Such vitriol. The news about this reported on the fact of a seventh-grade student winning a Young Naturalist award from the American Museum of Natural History, &amp; the nature of the research meriting the award. This award is given not on the basis of scientific breakthroughs, but of excellence in scientific *thinking*. The fact that his research garnered rebuttal from practicing scientists is testament to the quality of his scientific thinking. His conclusion was wrong, because he was testing the wrong variable. So, one can celebrate his experiment &amp; be glad for the opportunity to see scientific practice at work in the mass media--rare indeed--or carp &amp; fulminate. The sort of response found in this blog post &amp; so many comments around the web look utterly foolish &amp; strident when set beside the AMNH follow-up to the media attention to Aidan&#039;s essay &amp; award. Read it for yourselves: 

&#039;The seventh grader, who came up with a compelling question, designed an experiment, and gathered data for his investigation, fully met the criteria of the Young Naturalist Awards, a research-based competition that encourages students to develop their research skills by engaging in scientific investigations. But he had also made a mistake well-known to veteran scientists: he tested the wrong variable—in this case, voltage instead of power generated. A flawed experimental design, no matter how carefully executed, yields data that cannot be used to evaluate the hypothesis.

&#039;Although the contest judges did not recognize the error, Aidan’s interesting results—and his clear description of his methodology in his essay—led an electrical engineer to pinpoint the mistake in another process familiar to researchers: community review. In this case, Aidan’s community happened to include not just other seventh-graders but professional researchers, who were able to accurately assess his project—in itself, a credit to Aidan’s writing skills and clearly described methodology.&#039;

http://www.amnh.org/explore/news-blogs/news/valuable-lesson-about-variables</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Such vitriol. The news about this reported on the fact of a seventh-grade student winning a Young Naturalist award from the American Museum of Natural History, &amp; the nature of the research meriting the award. This award is given not on the basis of scientific breakthroughs, but of excellence in scientific *thinking*. The fact that his research garnered rebuttal from practicing scientists is testament to the quality of his scientific thinking. His conclusion was wrong, because he was testing the wrong variable. So, one can celebrate his experiment &amp; be glad for the opportunity to see scientific practice at work in the mass media&#8211;rare indeed&#8211;or carp &amp; fulminate. The sort of response found in this blog post &amp; so many comments around the web look utterly foolish &amp; strident when set beside the AMNH follow-up to the media attention to Aidan&#8217;s essay &amp; award. Read it for yourselves: </p>
<p>&#8216;The seventh grader, who came up with a compelling question, designed an experiment, and gathered data for his investigation, fully met the criteria of the Young Naturalist Awards, a research-based competition that encourages students to develop their research skills by engaging in scientific investigations. But he had also made a mistake well-known to veteran scientists: he tested the wrong variable—in this case, voltage instead of power generated. A flawed experimental design, no matter how carefully executed, yields data that cannot be used to evaluate the hypothesis.</p>
<p>&#8216;Although the contest judges did not recognize the error, Aidan’s interesting results—and his clear description of his methodology in his essay—led an electrical engineer to pinpoint the mistake in another process familiar to researchers: community review. In this case, Aidan’s community happened to include not just other seventh-graders but professional researchers, who were able to accurately assess his project—in itself, a credit to Aidan’s writing skills and clearly described methodology.&#8217;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amnh.org/explore/news-blogs/news/valuable-lesson-about-variables" rel="nofollow">http://www.amnh.org/explore/news-blogs/news/valuable-lesson-about-variables</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/746#comment-30018</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2012 13:59:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eco-scams.com/?p=746#comment-30018</guid>
		<description>I bet if you turned them both upside down his tree would produce more power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I bet if you turned them both upside down his tree would produce more power.</p>
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		<title>By: Dornier Pfeil</title>
		<link>http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/746#comment-29791</link>
		<dc:creator>Dornier Pfeil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2012 22:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eco-scams.com/?p=746#comment-29791</guid>
		<description>Jon,

I know this is old news by now, but you might introduce NightRider to Isaac Asimov&#039;s essay &quot;The Relativity of Wrong&quot;.

http://www.hermiene.net/essays-trans/relativity_of_wrong.html

It is one of the best answers ever written to the &quot;science is never right&quot; ignorance spewed by the no nothing types NightRider is exemplifying.

Assuming of course he left you an accurate email addie.

Sincerely,
Dorn</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon,</p>
<p>I know this is old news by now, but you might introduce NightRider to Isaac Asimov&#8217;s essay &#8220;The Relativity of Wrong&#8221;.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.hermiene.net/essays-trans/relativity_of_wrong.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.hermiene.net/essays-trans/relativity_of_wrong.html</a></p>
<p>It is one of the best answers ever written to the &#8220;science is never right&#8221; ignorance spewed by the no nothing types NightRider is exemplifying.</p>
<p>Assuming of course he left you an accurate email addie.</p>
<p>Sincerely,<br />
Dorn</p>
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		<title>By: Trader4</title>
		<link>http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/746#comment-29681</link>
		<dc:creator>Trader4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 18:12:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.eco-scams.com/?p=746#comment-29681</guid>
		<description>The sad thing reading this thread is how
little grounding in basic science many of
you here have.  The kid does an experiment
where he measures open circuit VOLTAGE and
uses it to claim that the tree array produces
more POWER than an equivalent array pointed
south.  Unfortunately the media are just as
ignorant.  Anyone who passed high school
physics should have easily spotted the many
things wrong here.  And then so many of you
continue to put credence in what the kid did,
while asking others to absolutely prove that
it&#039;s junk science?  Good grief!

Also, consider this.  There are millions of
solar arrays installed today.  There are
calculators on the web that will tell you the
best angle for a fixed array anywhere in the world.
None of those calculators will tell you that
you can get more power by pointing a fixed 
array in any other direction.   Here in the
USA, the optimal direction is facing south.
Arrays have certainly been installed where
all or part is facing in a less optimal direction
because it&#039;s impossible to face it the optimal
way.  If those arrays produced more power, you
think by now no company that is installing them,
either residentially or commercially, would have
noticed?   And if you can&#039;t get more power by
installing 2 oe 3 panels at various differing
directions that offer more output, then extending
it to 10, 30 or 100 panels isn&#039;t going to work
either.  It doesn&#039;t get more basic than that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The sad thing reading this thread is how<br />
little grounding in basic science many of<br />
you here have.  The kid does an experiment<br />
where he measures open circuit VOLTAGE and<br />
uses it to claim that the tree array produces<br />
more POWER than an equivalent array pointed<br />
south.  Unfortunately the media are just as<br />
ignorant.  Anyone who passed high school<br />
physics should have easily spotted the many<br />
things wrong here.  And then so many of you<br />
continue to put credence in what the kid did,<br />
while asking others to absolutely prove that<br />
it&#8217;s junk science?  Good grief!</p>
<p>Also, consider this.  There are millions of<br />
solar arrays installed today.  There are<br />
calculators on the web that will tell you the<br />
best angle for a fixed array anywhere in the world.<br />
None of those calculators will tell you that<br />
you can get more power by pointing a fixed<br />
array in any other direction.   Here in the<br />
USA, the optimal direction is facing south.<br />
Arrays have certainly been installed where<br />
all or part is facing in a less optimal direction<br />
because it&#8217;s impossible to face it the optimal<br />
way.  If those arrays produced more power, you<br />
think by now no company that is installing them,<br />
either residentially or commercially, would have<br />
noticed?   And if you can&#8217;t get more power by<br />
installing 2 oe 3 panels at various differing<br />
directions that offer more output, then extending<br />
it to 10, 30 or 100 panels isn&#8217;t going to work<br />
either.  It doesn&#8217;t get more basic than that.</p>
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