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	<title>Comments on: Magnetic fuel saving scams</title>
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	<link>http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/122</link>
	<description>Jon Starbuck's blog exposing pseudo-green nonsense, promoting science and critical thinking.</description>
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		<title>By: mobihci</title>
		<link>http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/122#comment-22519</link>
		<dc:creator>mobihci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Oct 2011 15:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonstarbuck.co.uk/archives/122#comment-22519</guid>
		<description>the sensors do nothing to the flame, the flame causes mechanical/electrical changes to metal strips like this which generate a small voltage-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermocouple

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect

to quote from the text-

&quot;The thermoelectric effect is the direct conversion of temperature differences to electric voltage and vice-versa. A thermoelectric device creates a voltage when there is a different temperature on each side. Conversely, when a voltage is applied to it, it creates a temperature difference. At the atomic scale, an applied temperature gradient causes charged carriers in the material to diffuse from the hot side to the cold side, similar to a classical gas that expands when heated; hence inducing a thermal current.&quot;

but there are other types that detect uv -

http://www.ehow.com/how-does_4924695_furnace-flame-sensor-work.html

 a magnetic field can only influence material that is permeable. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permeability_(electromagnetism)

hydrocarbons/oil based products are not great conductors, in fact they are good insulators and not permeable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the sensors do nothing to the flame, the flame causes mechanical/electrical changes to metal strips like this which generate a small voltage-</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermocouple" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermocouple</a></p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect</a></p>
<p>to quote from the text-</p>
<p>&#8220;The thermoelectric effect is the direct conversion of temperature differences to electric voltage and vice-versa. A thermoelectric device creates a voltage when there is a different temperature on each side. Conversely, when a voltage is applied to it, it creates a temperature difference. At the atomic scale, an applied temperature gradient causes charged carriers in the material to diffuse from the hot side to the cold side, similar to a classical gas that expands when heated; hence inducing a thermal current.&#8221;</p>
<p>but there are other types that detect uv -</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ehow.com/how-does_4924695_furnace-flame-sensor-work.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ehow.com/how-does_4924695_furnace-flame-sensor-work.html</a></p>
<p> a magnetic field can only influence material that is permeable. </p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permeability_(electromagnetism)" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permeability_(electromagnetism)</a></p>
<p>hydrocarbons/oil based products are not great conductors, in fact they are good insulators and not permeable.</p>
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		<title>By: baz</title>
		<link>http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/122#comment-21997</link>
		<dc:creator>baz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2011 18:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonstarbuck.co.uk/archives/122#comment-21997</guid>
		<description>i know this is off the subject but can anyone explain how a flame turns electric dc to ac for me, this is how an electric ignition boiler senses a flame is lit on a boiler. if that can happen why cant magnets?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i know this is off the subject but can anyone explain how a flame turns electric dc to ac for me, this is how an electric ignition boiler senses a flame is lit on a boiler. if that can happen why cant magnets?</p>
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		<title>By: mobihci</title>
		<link>http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/122#comment-21381</link>
		<dc:creator>mobihci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2011 12:08:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonstarbuck.co.uk/archives/122#comment-21381</guid>
		<description>heh, magnets affecting fuels.. i had never seen this one before. fits in line with magnets altering your body, curing everything! i mean really it must freak people who believe this stuff out when they realise how much they are exposed to during a MRI scan. cure broken bones! 

one thing about the fire being affected by magnetic fields though, its interesting that flame can be considered a plasma if it is hot enough, but thats in the thousands of deg c. plasmas can be altered by magnetic fields.

a good experiment is to put a lit match in a microwave and turn it on. watch the fireworks. note: you may damage the magnetron.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>heh, magnets affecting fuels.. i had never seen this one before. fits in line with magnets altering your body, curing everything! i mean really it must freak people who believe this stuff out when they realise how much they are exposed to during a MRI scan. cure broken bones! </p>
<p>one thing about the fire being affected by magnetic fields though, its interesting that flame can be considered a plasma if it is hot enough, but thats in the thousands of deg c. plasmas can be altered by magnetic fields.</p>
<p>a good experiment is to put a lit match in a microwave and turn it on. watch the fireworks. note: you may damage the magnetron.</p>
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		<title>By: Is this real? - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community</title>
		<link>http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/122#comment-15038</link>
		<dc:creator>Is this real? - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 May 2011 01:22:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonstarbuck.co.uk/archives/122#comment-15038</guid>
		<description>[...] Pure BS, here is why:  eco-scams.com Blog Archive Magnetic fuel saving scams [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Pure BS, here is why:  eco-scams.com Blog Archive Magnetic fuel saving scams [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Eric S. Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/122#comment-10759</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric S. Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Dec 2010 05:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonstarbuck.co.uk/archives/122#comment-10759</guid>
		<description>Also:  &quot;(I turned the stat down a notch on my boiler).&quot;  The thermostat?  That&#039;ll save you some fuel, but it has nothing to do with magnets. Are you imagining that your magically magnetized boiler is as hot at 78 degrees (or whatever) as it used to be at 80, and not, as it would have to be, unless your thermostat were broken, a couple of degrees cooler?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also:  &#8220;(I turned the stat down a notch on my boiler).&#8221;  The thermostat?  That&#8217;ll save you some fuel, but it has nothing to do with magnets. Are you imagining that your magically magnetized boiler is as hot at 78 degrees (or whatever) as it used to be at 80, and not, as it would have to be, unless your thermostat were broken, a couple of degrees cooler?</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/122#comment-10729</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Dec 2010 00:51:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonstarbuck.co.uk/archives/122#comment-10729</guid>
		<description>In order to be affected by magnets the fuel will need to have a magnetic component, yes. Diesel and petrol ARE hydrocarbons, but carbon also has no magnetic quality. I seriously doubt you gas burns higher &amp; hotter when magnets are placed near it, gas also is unaffected by magnets, if it is true than there is some other explanation but i&#039;d find it much more plausible that you are lying about this and in fact you sell this magnetic crap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In order to be affected by magnets the fuel will need to have a magnetic component, yes. Diesel and petrol ARE hydrocarbons, but carbon also has no magnetic quality. I seriously doubt you gas burns higher &amp; hotter when magnets are placed near it, gas also is unaffected by magnets, if it is true than there is some other explanation but i&#8217;d find it much more plausible that you are lying about this and in fact you sell this magnetic crap.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/122#comment-8875</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Sep 2010 06:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonstarbuck.co.uk/archives/122#comment-8875</guid>
		<description>fuels have no magnetic component?
Do they need one?
Diesel and petrol contain hydrocarbons. Until recently it was thought that carbon had no magnetic properties, scientists now realise it has possibilities.

on the other hand, what about the effect on gas? when I place a magnet near to the flames in my gas boiler, the flames grow higher &amp; burn hotter, the same applies when I wrap my magnets around the gas pipe.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fuels have no magnetic component?<br />
Do they need one?<br />
Diesel and petrol contain hydrocarbons. Until recently it was thought that carbon had no magnetic properties, scientists now realise it has possibilities.</p>
<p>on the other hand, what about the effect on gas? when I place a magnet near to the flames in my gas boiler, the flames grow higher &amp; burn hotter, the same applies when I wrap my magnets around the gas pipe.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/122#comment-8873</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Sep 2010 00:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonstarbuck.co.uk/archives/122#comment-8873</guid>
		<description>Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, not all evidence. Find me some science that backs up your claims, because I have tried and tried and tried and I can&#039;t find anything. Your anecdote about your car has no control, so it is scientifically meaningless. Fuels like diesel and petrol have no magnetic component, so they will be unaffected by magnets, they have nothing magnetic to re-align. Car or airplanes become electrically charged as they pass through the air, a very very very different thing. Many people have been prosecuted for false advertising WRT magnets, Google it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, not all evidence. Find me some science that backs up your claims, because I have tried and tried and tried and I can&#8217;t find anything. Your anecdote about your car has no control, so it is scientifically meaningless. Fuels like diesel and petrol have no magnetic component, so they will be unaffected by magnets, they have nothing magnetic to re-align. Car or airplanes become electrically charged as they pass through the air, a very very very different thing. Many people have been prosecuted for false advertising WRT magnets, Google it.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/122#comment-8871</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Sep 2010 00:03:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonstarbuck.co.uk/archives/122#comment-8871</guid>
		<description>So really then, as far as you are concerned, all evidence is anecdotal?

The magnets were attached to the water boilers at work by a professional company, judging by the size of them compared to the domestic mains operated ones, I imagine there was a huge cost involved.
As far as the magnets on my fuel line were concerned, I was buyiong all my fuel on a company fuel card so each time I filled up I had to give my mileage and my records showed an increased mpg. I was travelling hundreds of miles a week, all around town and I didn&#039;t have time to mess around driving economically so any placebo effect would have been quickly forgotten.
I felt it was worth a punt for a tenner &amp; I have recomended magnets ever since.
I have had people try to tell me that it is impossible for magnets to have any effect on fuel - its composition simply doesn&#039;t allow it.
Maybe it isn&#039;t being affected in the way these websites are trying to explain (re-aligning molecules etc), maybe the fuel builds up a charge as it rushes through the pipes (in much the same way as a car or plane is charged as it moves through the air?) and it is this that the magnets act on?
Maybe the magnets don&#039;t work on all cars due to the different composition of fuel lines used?

And the other thing is that we have laws about people making false claims in advertising - so why are magnets still advertised as having all these &#039;fantasticla&#039; properties?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So really then, as far as you are concerned, all evidence is anecdotal?</p>
<p>The magnets were attached to the water boilers at work by a professional company, judging by the size of them compared to the domestic mains operated ones, I imagine there was a huge cost involved.<br />
As far as the magnets on my fuel line were concerned, I was buyiong all my fuel on a company fuel card so each time I filled up I had to give my mileage and my records showed an increased mpg. I was travelling hundreds of miles a week, all around town and I didn&#8217;t have time to mess around driving economically so any placebo effect would have been quickly forgotten.<br />
I felt it was worth a punt for a tenner &amp; I have recomended magnets ever since.<br />
I have had people try to tell me that it is impossible for magnets to have any effect on fuel &#8211; its composition simply doesn&#8217;t allow it.<br />
Maybe it isn&#8217;t being affected in the way these websites are trying to explain (re-aligning molecules etc), maybe the fuel builds up a charge as it rushes through the pipes (in much the same way as a car or plane is charged as it moves through the air?) and it is this that the magnets act on?<br />
Maybe the magnets don&#8217;t work on all cars due to the different composition of fuel lines used?</p>
<p>And the other thing is that we have laws about people making false claims in advertising &#8211; so why are magnets still advertised as having all these &#8216;fantasticla&#8217; properties?</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.eco-scams.com/archives/122#comment-8868</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 22:39:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonstarbuck.co.uk/archives/122#comment-8868</guid>
		<description>Mike, thanks for your reply.

As you say, placebo effect. Everything you say is not evidence, it is only anecdote, when examples of what you claim are rested under controlled conditions (where outside influence and bias are removed and uncertainties understood) the effect disappears.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, thanks for your reply.</p>
<p>As you say, placebo effect. Everything you say is not evidence, it is only anecdote, when examples of what you claim are rested under controlled conditions (where outside influence and bias are removed and uncertainties understood) the effect disappears.</p>
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